Topic: Is faith the world’s most effective placebo?
+Antikhristos !M6R0eWkIpk — 13 years ago #25,988
My 15 minutes of fame, courtesy of an article in the Washington Post featuring me as an atheist who prays to an invented God in order to facilitate my participation in a 12-step recovery program, provoked a little tempest in the teapot of atheist blog postings and commentary. My fellow atheists have suggested, not always politely, that I’m not an atheist, that I’m not really praying, and that praying is not acceptable behavior for atheists. As politely as I can manage, I would like to defend myself on all three counts.To the charge of not being an atheist, I reply that, while I do pray to a figment of my imagination that I sometimes call God, I completely reject supernatural explanations for why things happen in the world and in my life. I use purely psychological explanations to understand the effects I notice as a result of my prayers. I would ask those who want to boot me out of the atheist camp to explain what qualifications are needed beyond a rejection of the supernatural. Is there some code of mental conduct for atheists that I have managed to violate? Could I be reinstated as an atheist by admitting that I’m not really praying? Atheist blogger Herb Silverman on the electronic pages of the Washington Post says, “Atheist prayers sound a lot like what I would call focusing or meditating, which some also view as a transcendent or spiritual experience.”
My daily regimen includes 30 to 45 of meditation in addition to prayer, so when I claim to be praying it’s not because I just don’t know the difference. Meditation involves various forms of relaxing or focusing the mind, focusing at times on the breath, physical sensations, thoughts, sounds, etc. Insofar as mental speech arises in meditation, it arises as a phenomenon to be observed, not as an intentional activity. Prayer, on the other hand, is intentional speech, silent or aloud, addressing a benevolent listener who is not physically present. Recitation or chanting of mantras or repeated prayers form a gray area between meditation or prayer, but outside this gray area, the two are clearly distinguished by the active use of speech, not by belief in the entity addressed when speech is used.
Silverman goes on to say, “Although an argument can be made to do whatever works for you, reality works best for me. I don’t need imaginary friends---nor do most reality-based people.”
Now, I can’t claim to speak for all non-reality-based people, but I don’t need imaginary friends, either. I lived for 45 years without them. I just happened to find that when I started talking to an imaginary friend, certain struggles began to evaporate. It became easier to act according to my conscience.
When I started, I had a logical reason for praying to a nonexistent God: I could see clear evidence that a bunch of people in my 12-step program were succeeding at losing and keeping off remarkable amounts of weight while simultaneously gaining a newfound sense of serenity, happiness and freedom. I wanted what those people had; I was willing to do what they had done. So, when they told me to get on my knees and start asking God for help, I did. It didn’t change my conviction that God doesn’t exist, it just changed my practices.
Many people, performing the same experiment, have concluded that if the praying works, God must exist. I didn’t do that. I had read a lot of philosophy and psychology and decided that I could explain what was happening without falling back on supernatural beings or events. I was familiar with, among other things, studies showing that placebos can work even when patients know they are taking them.
We are all aware of the power of belief, but not everyone realizes how flexible this power is. Much can be accomplished by believing in the power of belief itself. This is not self-hypnotism or self-delusion. It is consciously making use of a scientifically demonstrable feature of the mind. If making use of recent scientific knowledge to improve one’s life is not acceptable behavior for an atheist, I don’t know what is.
-WashingtonPost
Related Articles:
In Defense of Superstition (NYtimes)
Q&A: Why Superstition and ‘Magical Thinking’ Have Real Benefits (TIME)
+Syntax — 13 years ago, 15 minutes later[T] [B] #307,536
> It didn’t change my conviction that God doesn’t exist, it just changed my practices.
So he marched in step.
Kinda like joining some army and following orders.
So he marched in step.
Kinda like joining some army and following orders.
·Antikhristos !M6R0eWkIpk (OP) — 13 years ago, 14 minutes later, 30 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #307,540
@previous (Syntax )
I don't think so. I think he just utilized these practices as a tool.
PS: Were you a military man between being a secret double agent fighting the KGB in the field and in the skies with super secret spy satellites and attending debaucherous drug-fueled pagan orgies?
I don't think so. I think he just utilized these practices as a tool.
PS: Were you a military man between being a secret double agent fighting the KGB in the field and in the skies with super secret spy satellites and attending debaucherous drug-fueled pagan orgies?
·Syntax — 13 years ago, 11 minutes later, 42 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #307,544
@previous (Antikhristos !M6R0eWkIpk)
Never in the military. For what I did for US Gov I had to take Marine Basic training which I flunked but was allowed to take a 2nd tyme and Survival and in that class I was top of the class.
Nor was I ever a secret agent. Was however a Q and did one hell of a lot of field work as such. I did a gig in Afghanistan on n off for almost a decade where WE kicked Russia out and a movie was even made about wot we did. NOT so much how we did it.
Nor did I ever not even once carry a weapon. Mates with me who did were all killed. I did not so well in Marine basic with weapons but did just pass.
My experience with stuff Satellites use to see through clouds and even in2 buildings and underground with AMAZING Results - Was first developed using DC-3's to fly n test the concepts.
Cannot read a license plate n stuff that does that is not in my Technical expertise.
Never in the military. For what I did for US Gov I had to take Marine Basic training which I flunked but was allowed to take a 2nd tyme and Survival and in that class I was top of the class.
Nor was I ever a secret agent. Was however a Q and did one hell of a lot of field work as such. I did a gig in Afghanistan on n off for almost a decade where WE kicked Russia out and a movie was even made about wot we did. NOT so much how we did it.
Nor did I ever not even once carry a weapon. Mates with me who did were all killed. I did not so well in Marine basic with weapons but did just pass.
My experience with stuff Satellites use to see through clouds and even in2 buildings and underground with AMAZING Results - Was first developed using DC-3's to fly n test the concepts.
Cannot read a license plate n stuff that does that is not in my Technical expertise.
·Antikhristos !M6R0eWkIpk (OP) — 13 years ago, 10 minutes later, 53 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #307,546
@previous (Syntax )
I'll just assume you're not at liberty to discuss it and this is all a smokescreen. Nice try, Syntax.
I'll just assume you're not at liberty to discuss it and this is all a smokescreen. Nice try, Syntax.
·Syntax — 13 years ago, 3 minutes later, 56 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #307,547
+Anonymous C — 13 years ago, 2 hours later, 3 hours after the original post[T] [B] #307,567
It's the most effective suppository.
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