Topic: About dating MtF trans-women...
+Autphag — 13.1 years ago #24,880
I used to be dating this wonderful MtF trans-woman.
From that experience, I learned that there are two tenets that come from trans-women:
1.) It is not OK to expect MtF people to disclose their status when going into a date with a cis-male. - Yet this causes so many problems. People saying that you are "being deceptive" and threats of violence. This also means you aren't selecting for the people who are interested/open-minded to the idea of being with a trans-person. See below.
2.) It is not OK to be a "chaser." - Yet what does attraction mean? Is it OK to be attracted to her, but not OK to continue doing so after you find out she's trans? Where do you cross the line from being a guy who is interested in a (trans)girl to a "chaser"? If the relationship is going to move towards the bedroom, it's going to come up at some point.
Given those tenets, my question is, what are the alternatives for a guy who is genuinely interested in a given trans-girl? What are the options for MtF people who want to date cis-males? The two statements mentioned above makes it impossible for either side to be happy.
For example, I (biological male) dated this very nice girl, who I was genuinely interested in. I didn't care she was trans, but I did find myself attracted to her personality. It was OK for her to express her sexual interest in me, but when I found myself sexually interested in her, I found myself constantly checking myself to avoid #2 mentioned above. Also, the constant threat of exhibiting "male privilege" made it impossible for her to love me back, even though I was working very hard to see and avoid it in the things I do.
In the end, it didn't really work out for us for a combination of the above reasons. I don't want to think I like her more because she is trans. But I have found myself attracted to girls before, and then LATER found out they were MtF. The whole experience with my ex makes me feel very very guilty for being attracted to these people. This is a guilt that doesn't apply to when I find cis-girls attractive. So...
I don't know whether this is a common problem in the trans community, but it sounds like there is no happy medium when it comes to trans people dating cis people. - They are scared of violence/being hurt by disapprovers. - They are disgusted by the fetishization from approvers. What if you're in the middle? What if you actually like the person?
From that experience, I learned that there are two tenets that come from trans-women:
1.) It is not OK to expect MtF people to disclose their status when going into a date with a cis-male. - Yet this causes so many problems. People saying that you are "being deceptive" and threats of violence. This also means you aren't selecting for the people who are interested/open-minded to the idea of being with a trans-person. See below.
2.) It is not OK to be a "chaser." - Yet what does attraction mean? Is it OK to be attracted to her, but not OK to continue doing so after you find out she's trans? Where do you cross the line from being a guy who is interested in a (trans)girl to a "chaser"? If the relationship is going to move towards the bedroom, it's going to come up at some point.
Given those tenets, my question is, what are the alternatives for a guy who is genuinely interested in a given trans-girl? What are the options for MtF people who want to date cis-males? The two statements mentioned above makes it impossible for either side to be happy.
For example, I (biological male) dated this very nice girl, who I was genuinely interested in. I didn't care she was trans, but I did find myself attracted to her personality. It was OK for her to express her sexual interest in me, but when I found myself sexually interested in her, I found myself constantly checking myself to avoid #2 mentioned above. Also, the constant threat of exhibiting "male privilege" made it impossible for her to love me back, even though I was working very hard to see and avoid it in the things I do.
In the end, it didn't really work out for us for a combination of the above reasons. I don't want to think I like her more because she is trans. But I have found myself attracted to girls before, and then LATER found out they were MtF. The whole experience with my ex makes me feel very very guilty for being attracted to these people. This is a guilt that doesn't apply to when I find cis-girls attractive. So...
I don't know whether this is a common problem in the trans community, but it sounds like there is no happy medium when it comes to trans people dating cis people. - They are scared of violence/being hurt by disapprovers. - They are disgusted by the fetishization from approvers. What if you're in the middle? What if you actually like the person?
+Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 4 minutes later[T] [B] #296,498
They exist as fetishization objects for the freaks who enable them and objects to be destroyed for those of us who are genuinely cocnerned with preserving the genetic integrity of our species. Full stop, the end. Fuck off.
(Edited 2 minutes later.)
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 54 seconds later, 5 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,499
Oh, and since the timing's about right between those two posts,
HI KOOK!
HI KOOK!
+Morbid !Xnp/V/hD1o — 13.1 years ago, 6 minutes later, 12 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,500
@296,498 (Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g)
@previous (Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g)
Pro-troll-tip: reacting to obvious trolls means they're winning and you're becoming their lolcow
@previous (Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g)
Pro-troll-tip: reacting to obvious trolls means they're winning and you're becoming their lolcow
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 2 minutes later, 14 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,501
@previous (Morbid !Xnp/V/hD1o)
> implying my indignation is anything but exaggerated for emphasis, attention, and to throw you off for intellectual blowouts down the road, like that thread you're being pulverized in now at Scatchan
> implying my indignation is anything but exaggerated for emphasis, attention, and to throw you off for intellectual blowouts down the road, like that thread you're being pulverized in now at Scatchan
·Morbid !Xnp/V/hD1o — 13.1 years ago, 1 minute later, 15 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,502
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 36 seconds later, 16 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,503
·Autphag (OP) — 13.1 years ago, 24 minutes later, 41 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,505
A few things to avoid being a chaser.
Acknowledge that trans women are women and not "feminine/super gay males."
Do not stereotype trans women. Assuming they will be extra willing to have sex, be extra desperate for your affection, or be extra feminine as compared to cis women will only lead to tragedy.
Do not emphasize her genitals moreso than the rest of her. It's objectifying, like when a guy stares at a woman's breast when she's talking instead of her face.
Avoid describing her with slang. Everyone has different slang they are fine with and not fine with. Find out what she ok and not ok with before you start using words like "trap/ladyboy/tgirl/MTF/etc."
Understand that the certain aspects you like about her may be aspects she is trying to downplay or get rid of. (When I was early transition a few people that hit on me specifically told me they wanted me to stay on low-dose hormones so I would merely be androgynous rather than fully feminine, yikes.)
Acknowledge that trans women are women and not "feminine/super gay males."
Do not stereotype trans women. Assuming they will be extra willing to have sex, be extra desperate for your affection, or be extra feminine as compared to cis women will only lead to tragedy.
Do not emphasize her genitals moreso than the rest of her. It's objectifying, like when a guy stares at a woman's breast when she's talking instead of her face.
Avoid describing her with slang. Everyone has different slang they are fine with and not fine with. Find out what she ok and not ok with before you start using words like "trap/ladyboy/tgirl/MTF/etc."
Understand that the certain aspects you like about her may be aspects she is trying to downplay or get rid of. (When I was early transition a few people that hit on me specifically told me they wanted me to stay on low-dose hormones so I would merely be androgynous rather than fully feminine, yikes.)
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 3 minutes later, 44 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,507
@previous (Autphag )
Trying to make me out to be a transfreak with reddit copypastas. You could at least form your own material. Pathetic.
Trying to make me out to be a transfreak with reddit copypastas. You could at least form your own material. Pathetic.
·Autphag (OP) — 13.1 years ago, 2 minutes later, 47 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,508
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 56 seconds later, 48 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,509
@previous (Autphag )
Blacks, being 100% testosterone, even on estrogen, must be the least convincing. But in any case, no; I don't even use Google.
Blacks, being 100% testosterone, even on estrogen, must be the least convincing. But in any case, no; I don't even use Google.
·Autphag (OP) — 13.1 years ago, 4 minutes later, 53 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,510
@previous (Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g)
I didn't mention Google. But come on... We all know you're deeply fascinated about trans culture.
I didn't mention Google. But come on... We all know you're deeply fascinated about trans culture.
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 1 minute later, 55 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,511
+Anonymous D — 13.1 years ago, 3 minutes later, 58 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #296,513
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[T] [B] #296,515
@previous (D)
That's not indicative of deep research, these are just obvious observations anyone could make!
The problem is that your consciousness levels are appalling.
That's not indicative of deep research, these are just obvious observations anyone could make!
The problem is that your consciousness levels are appalling.
·Anonymous D — 13.1 years ago, 3 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[T] [B] #296,516
@previous (Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g)
Well ok you think about transculture all the time. Just come out and admit it. It doesn't make you gay or queer. You're just some asexual dude into trans stuff
Well ok you think about transculture all the time. Just come out and admit it. It doesn't make you gay or queer. You're just some asexual dude into trans stuff
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 6 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[T] [B] #296,517
@previous (D)
The only reason I think about it is because it confuses me, and before you go on a tirade about autism and inflexible thinking, because I've tried approaching thing from every angle, believe me, it just seems incongruent to me that someone would go so far as to betray so mercenarily their own biological sex, an essential part of the heritage of their genetic credo, throwing it all away for some Sexual Bolshevist mad-fantasy for which there is no scientific proof of a biological basis in and of itself, there's no way for instance that there can be literally an incongruence between biological sex and neurological gender, hormones are just too strongly affecting an influence on the brain during adolescence even with xenoestrogens in the water supply turning out all of these rakes of 'new men' metrosexuals; the studies actually conducted properly show that transsexuals just have a defective sexual activity region showing more resemblance with a gay man than anything else, poorly connected, with few neurons, allowing them to rationalize promiscuous behaviour and expressions of deviancy breaking the cultural convention. It just seems like a really deceptive, underhanded way to solicit homosexual sodomous conjugalities.
The only reason I think about it is because it confuses me, and before you go on a tirade about autism and inflexible thinking, because I've tried approaching thing from every angle, believe me, it just seems incongruent to me that someone would go so far as to betray so mercenarily their own biological sex, an essential part of the heritage of their genetic credo, throwing it all away for some Sexual Bolshevist mad-fantasy for which there is no scientific proof of a biological basis in and of itself, there's no way for instance that there can be literally an incongruence between biological sex and neurological gender, hormones are just too strongly affecting an influence on the brain during adolescence even with xenoestrogens in the water supply turning out all of these rakes of 'new men' metrosexuals; the studies actually conducted properly show that transsexuals just have a defective sexual activity region showing more resemblance with a gay man than anything else, poorly connected, with few neurons, allowing them to rationalize promiscuous behaviour and expressions of deviancy breaking the cultural convention. It just seems like a really deceptive, underhanded way to solicit homosexual sodomous conjugalities.
(Edited 4 minutes later.)
·Autphag (OP) — 13.1 years ago, 1 hour later, 2 hours after the original post[T] [B] #296,541
·Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g — 13.1 years ago, 1 minute later, 2 hours after the original post[T] [B] #296,542
+Dr. Autphag !fvna3QzWVM — 13.1 years ago, 3 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[T] [B] #296,544
@previous (Dr. Autphag !FaiGWhdD4g)
> my claims in themselves don't constitute proof.
They do to yourself most of the time.
> my claims in themselves don't constitute proof.
They do to yourself most of the time.
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