Topic: Any Clive Barker fans?

+Anonymous A — 13.6 years ago #17,712

His films (as director) - Hellraiser, Lord of Illusions, Nightbreed

His novels - Imajica, Weaveworld, many others

His short stories - The Books of Blood (the movie 'Candyman' was based on one of the stories).

Really amazing imagination this guy has, and brilliant prose style. No other living writer/film-maker (to my knowledge) can work with the kind of images his weird mind comes up with.

+Anonymous B — 13.6 years ago, 12 minutes later[T] [B] #218,101

I am somewhat of a part time fan of the genre.....I used to have a lot more time for reading.....not so much as of late......but I do enjoy literature of varied styles..

+Anonymous C — 13.6 years ago, 2 minutes later, 15 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #218,104

GY!BE fan here. Yes, very much so. I have been very patiently waiting for the Scarlet Gospels to be released. When it is, it will surely be an instant classic.

If you have not read The Hellbound Heart, the novella from which spawned the Hellraiser series, I really recommend that you do. It is a great book. I also enjoyed Jericho... however I still have not had the chance to touch upon Tortured Souls.

·Anonymous A (OP) — 13.6 years ago, 12 minutes later, 27 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #218,110

@previous (C)
I've read The Hellbound Heart. Even collected all the Epic Comics series (which included stories by Neal Gaiman, and the brothers who made The Matrix). Some really brilliant stories in those, flickering with invention (20 comics in all, published in the late 80s - very rare and expensive now, unfortunately). Really love the Hellraiser mythos. Sadly, The Scarlet Gospels have been given over to another writer to finish, because of his health problems. He's focusing entirely on the Abarat Quintet now. Looking forward to Scarlet Gospels anyway, apparently it will re-visit the Hellraiser mythology and tell the story of how Elliott Spenser became Pinhead (badly done in the 2nd and 3rd films).

(Edited 9 minutes later.)

·Anonymous C — 13.6 years ago, 20 minutes later, 48 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #218,113

@previous (A)
He always seems to be developing new projects, oftentimes things that take years upon years to see to completion. I can understand why, though: he has such a strong dedication to his craft that it really shows and very rarely do you ever receive an incomplete and disappointing product. At least for most things he has direct creative control over.

> Looking forward to Scarlet Gospels anyway, apparently it will re-visit the Hellraiser mythology and tell the story of how Elliott Spenser became Pinhead (badly done in the 2nd and 3rd films).

This is primarily my interest in the novel as well because I always found the Hellraiser mythos to be a very interesting take on Christian mythology (so to speak) and it's sort of neutral take on what is good and what is evil, but rather the direct consequences of your own choices dictating your fate. With Elliot Spencer... yeah, they painted him into sort of a weak corner and in later films Pinhead was reduced to being nothing more than a trouble-making demon bent on personal world domination. But that's also in part due to Mr. Barker having left the franchise after those first two films. The fifth one (Inferno) was a very interesting take, sort of like a Jacob's Ladder spin to it, and I thought it kind of returned the message to its roots since I've always considered the premise of Hellraiser to be a more intelligent and mysterious horror series but now I'm just going off into a tangent.

As for the Abarat Quintet, I've heard so much about it but haven't had the time to sit down with any of the books. Maybe it would be something nice to re-spark my interest. I assume you have to read them in order?

(Edited 2 minutes later.)

·Anonymous A (OP) — 13.6 years ago, 10 minutes later, 59 minutes after the original post[T] [B] #218,117

It's a little spooky how close you and I are in music and films. But anyway...

Yeah, I agree. Inferno tried to do something a little different. My main problem with all the films after part 2 was that Pinhead became a lovable, wise-cracking rogue, just like all the 'horror' icons end up becoming. In Inferno for example, good as it is, since when did Pinhead become a moraliser? He's punishing the detective for screwing around and being corrupt, and then gives that self-righteous speech at the end about how he's sinned and has destroyed his inner child. He's supposed to be the crown prince of hell itself. The Pinhead of part 1 would've just 'cut' to the chase and got on with the sado-masochism. Why is he preaching like a priest?

Parts 6, 7 and 8, you probably know, were old horror film-scripts which New Line Cinema had bought many years before, not related to the Hellraiser mythology, which the studio dusted off and got Rick Bota (who made all 3 films in the space of about a year) to work into Hellraiser films, just to hang onto the franchise rights.

Part 9 was a passionate, well-meaning and imaginative failure from start to finish, terribly made for $300,000 by a couple of fans.

·Anonymous C — 13.6 years ago, 10 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[T] [B] #218,118

@previous (A)
As far as being the moraliser, I thought Pinhead's role wasn't so much as the prosecutor but rather the executioner. It could be said that in the second film that Dr. Channard forced the little girl to open the box, so when the Cenobites arrived they knew it was not by hands but by intentions they were after, they came after Dr. Channard because it was more or less his doing. Pinhead's function has always been to operate for the Engineer. At least that's how I interpreted part 5. Perhaps I need to re-visit it since it has been quite some time now.

Part 9, as in Revelations? The ash can copy they produced that was made in less than a month (again to keep the franchise rights)? I don't even consider it to be a Hellraiser film simply because Doug Bradley was not attached to it.

As far as a remake goes, I am loathing the moment when I have to cross that bridge. However, who knows, they might actually make something good. Bradley is really getting too old for the role anyway and the last film was pretty much the sad end to his continued reign. Oh well.

·Anonymous A (OP) — 13.6 years ago, 11 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[T] [B] #218,120

@previous (C)
Interesting theory, and it's all open to interpretation, but I thought Pinhead WAS the Engineer. At least in the novella (Hellbound Heart) he is. He's never given the name of Pinhead in the book, that was an 'affectionate' fan name that stuck. In the first few pages (when Frank opens the box), the character known as 'The Engineer' is described as having pins in his head.

edit: the remake (or 'reboot' as they are euphemistically called nowadays) has been canned. They could never get it off the ground because directors kept dropping out. Finally decided to shelve it indefinitely.

(Edited 1 minute later.)

·Anonymous C — 13.6 years ago, 7 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[T] [B] #218,122

@previous (A)
This is true as far as the novella is concerned, but I divide it from the films as it's more or less a spiritual predecessor to the overall Hellraiser mythos. While the first film and the novella are nearly identical, you can just as easily say they are not the same work for simple things such as the Engineer having pins in his head, in the novella Larry Cotton's name is actually Rory Cotton, etc.

IIRC Barker has said he's endorsed a few people who were interested in being involved in the remake and that it's possible he'd assist in the production in some form or fashion (among other things, re-vamping character designs). I believe I saw some sketches but those are probably old and simply just speculative fanfare. Can't remember.

+Anonymous D — 13.6 years ago, 5 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[T] [B] #218,125

Niggers!

·Anonymous A (OP) — 13.6 years ago, 14 minutes later, 1 hour after the original post[T] [B] #218,127

@218,122 (C)
But Barker's health is really shot to hell now (he can't even attend the Bram Stoker awards this year to pick up his lifetime achievement award), and there's the impending court case filed by his ex-husband David Armstrong who is accusing him of deliberately infecting him with AIDS. I'm afraid any say Barker has in the direction of the franchise will not be worth much soon.

·Anonymous C — 13.6 years ago, 54 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[T] [B] #218,143

@previous (A)
Hmm, really? I wasn't aware of that but I found an article saying that the case was dismissed late December '12? Had me scared for a minute there that he was due not long for this Earth but there's no indication that he has that particular disease. Everything else seems to indicate that he bounced back pretty well, all things considered. I find it crazy that he has so much TBA content listed on his Wikipedia page.

·Anonymous A (OP) — 13.6 years ago, 7 minutes later, 2 hours after the original post[T] [B] #218,144

@previous (C)
Didn't know the case was dismissed, thanks for letting me know, and happy to hear it.

Yeah, the TBAs - Abarat parts 4 and 5, Galilee parts 2 and 3, The Art book 3, Scarlet Gospels, The Thief of Always part 2, and the so-called 'Massive' book (check his website for a full list - www.clivebarker.info)

Don't know how he can possibly fit all this in, given he's published something like 8 novels in his entire 25-year career, and is now 61 years old and in poor physical and psychological health.

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